Beschleunigung 1.4 TSI 90 KW

Soooo,

auch bei mir gibts neues, zu 99% keine Probleme mehr, warum weis ich allerdings nicht genau !

Ich habe an vielen Sachen rum gefummelt, ausprobiert.
Als erstes hatte ich versucht das Zugauge für Klappe an der Druckdose zu verstellen, habe aber die Kontermutter nicht los bekommen.
Um den Abstand dennoch zu verändern/verkürzen habe ich Passscheiben unter die Druckdose/Gewindebolzen der Druckdose "gelegt", rund 0,3mm kürzerer Weg der Stange. Dazu hatte ich die Druckdose komplett ausgebaut.
Daraus resultierte ein Ladedruck laut Torque von max. 0,9 Bar. Damit lief er wie ein Sack Nüsse. Das Steuergerät muss ordentlich zurück geregelt haben, wie z.B. Zündzeitpunkt. Wenigstens war die wellige Beschleunigung weg...
Also Passscheiben wieder raus. Zudem habe ich die Unterdrucköffnung am Turbo, wo der Schlauch zum N75 geht, aufgebohrt. Einen guten halben Millimeter größer. Dann habe ich die Schelle an der Druckseite des Turbos, wo der Druckschlauch zum N75 geht, nachgespannt.
Der Schlauch war nie richtig fest auf der Metallhülse am Turbo. Er lies sich sehr leicht bewegen/drehen, nun geht es schwerer. Vielleich hatte er dadurch Druck verloren ?

Denn ich glaube nicht mehr an eine hakende Klappe, das müsste in mangelnder Leistung enden, wenn die offen bleibt weil die hakelt und nicht pulsierend, denn sie müsste in einer Stellung hängen bleiben.

Und was mir noch wichtig erscheint, ich habe die Druckdose komplett ausgebaut und die Schubstange oft gedreht, nicht großartig im Winkel, aber ein paar Male, weil ich die Mutter nicht los bekam. Ob ein veränderter Winkel/Stellung der Stange etwas bewirkt ?
Ich gehe daher davon aus, das zumindest bei mir die Druckdose der Übeltäter ist. Denn das Lager der Wastegateklappe hatte ich vorher sauber gemacht, also die Paste abgebürstet und seit dem ist keine mehr drauf/zwischen. Dennoch bin ich immernoch der Meinung, das das Lager der Wastegate Klappe von minderer Qualität ist.
Seit dem letzten Post habe ich keine Probleme mehr ! Ich habe sogar den Werkstatt Termin abgesagt, wo er eigentlich auf Grund der letzten TPI/Ruckeln und auf mein drängen/empfehlen zum Kulanztausch hin sollte.

Es ist aber definitiv so, das ich mit betätigen der Druckdose mit der Spritze die Klappe zum haken bekommen habe, hauptsächlich in Endposition. Durch das Rumgedrehe an der Schubstange gehe ich davon aus das sich irgendwas gelöst/verändert habe. Das ich die Öffnung am Turbo aufgebohrt habe oder die Schelle an der Druckseite des Turbos der Metallhülse nachgespannt habe könnte auch ein Grund sein...

Auf jeden Fall läuft er zu 99 % wieder so wie vorher !

fixpixu

Does your engine works now fine ?

Yes, my engine works very good now. I've also manually moved the wastegate with a pump, it travels very easily and without any noise. It's a big difference from the previous one.

fixpixu

Now it is somewhat time elapsed und is your engine still running good ?

On next Monday i will contact my vw dealer about the repairkit for the Turbo. They had a Golf 6 with the same Problems and this car had received the repairkit for the turbo. i hope i can get some more information about this car and in wich condition it was and on the basis of what decision the repairkit was installed.

Do you have seen the repairkit, differences ? does it contains a new pressure-can/Druckdose for the wastegateflap ?

Zitat von Typ1H9

so ich schreib hier mal meines vom golf 5.

caxa jetzt mit 91tkm. turbo war beim kauf von 80tkm der erste noch drauf. tja irgendwann so 85tkm. habe ich das ruckeln bekommen. naja es wurde der repsatz verbaut. soweit so gut. nur dieses jahr im märz ging es wieder los. immer im 3 oder 4 dsg gang. bei 2000 - 3000 kommen so 3 bis 4 fette ruckler. aber nicht immer. halt nur sporadisch................ leider ist der speicher leer. vw zuckt nur mit den schultern.

mit der pumpe schon geschaut. das wastegate arbeitet.

verstehe nicht was es ist. wenn ich eine fahrt mit pc mache, ist nichts. mir scheint es so. als kommt es zu 99% der fälle vor wenn wir so 18°C außentemp haben und man wirklich eine zeitlang mit tempomat gefahren ist. also so 3km und mehr und dann mal gas gibt......

in allen anderen gängen ist nichts.

ggf. hat einer mal einen vorschlag

Alles anzeigen

Was war es denn jetzt bei dir? Ich hab so langsam das Gefühl, bei mir ists genau so... 85tkm momentan.

The engine runs good now, no power loss (leistungsverlust) while accelerating.
The turbo repair kit for this problem consists only of the exhaust manifold that contains the wastegate valve and some gaskets and screws.
The turbocharger will not be disassembled at all, just the wastegate linkage will be removed in order to separate the old exhaust manifold from the turbo body.

However the delayed throttle response was back after a while.
So ... I have begun to study the problem again... and have reached the conclusion that the turbo actuator (Druckdose) might be problematic.
So I've greased the part of the wastegate rod at the actuator end.
Since then I can say that there has been an improvement of the throttle response.

A short guide on how to maintain a turbocharger (for our engines you don't need to remove the turbocharger from the engine for these procedures) I have found a short illustrative guide:
http://www.evilution.co.uk/servicing/wastegate_servicing.htm

Thanks for your Answer.
I have made an appointment at my VW Service Station for about next week on Monday. So I have time for one and a half week to think about it. My car will get the Repair Kit too. There will be no obligingness from Volkswagen because there is no error and no hooking waste gate flap....... So I have to pay the costs about 800 Euro by myself. But when im reading the experiences from some users here and yours, i hope i understand it right, then everybody who has installed this kit got the same Problems again after a while.

Do you have the Problems with the Kit too after a while ? So can i save me the costs of the repair or shall i invest the costs for the repair kit ?

Zitat von fixpixu

The engine runs good now, no power loss (leistungsverlust) while accelerating.
The turbo repair kit for this problem consists only of the exhaust manifold that contains the wastegate valve and some gaskets and screws.
The turbocharger will not be disassembled at all, just the wastegate linkage will be removed in order to separate the old exhaust manifold from the turbo body.

The engine ran well or is running well now today ?

My VW Dealer told me about the scope of delivery the same that you did have told. No turbo actuator (Druckdose) will be delivered. If i might say it so the old crap will be installed again...

Zitat von fixpixu

However the delayed throttle response was back after a while.
So ... I have begun to study the problem again... and have reached the conclusion that the turbo actuator (Druckdose) might be problematic.
So I've greased the part of the wastegate rod at the actuator end.
Since then I can say that there has been an improvement of the throttle response.

Delayed response ? Problem with the new repair kit ?

I think too the turbo actuator (Druckdose) will be the main problem its not strong enough. A little resistance
and the actuator has no strength to close the flap. But it seems to be
very strength because only with hands you can not move the rod...
Here comes the old question with wich lubrication do greased it ? There was the Sonax ceramic paste... But you did not already lubricated it last year with the sonax paste ?

Zitat von fixpixu

A short guide on how to maintain a turbocharger (for our engines you don't need to remove the turbocharger from the engine for these procedures) I have found a short illustrative guide:
http://www.evilution.co.uk/servicing/wastegate_servicing.htm

this means there is no lasting solution from vw, which creates the problem from the world ??

Interesting link to service the waste gate from a smart turbo. the technik is equal to the caxa engine. But also NO recommendation about the lubricant, the product he used.
he recommends to use a graphite based lubricant not a spirit based. whats a spirit based ? What means spirit ? WD40 is not
recommended its spirit based...
WD40 will dissolve some dirt and light rust. when move the wastegate back and forth with WD40 the bearing is clean it may be work better for a while ?
What will happen with the WD40 will its burns away and good or will it leave it some traces like the sonax ceramic paste ?

So...
1. The exhaust manifold from the repair kit is has a different design compared to the old one.
2. I do not have any powerloss problems, or wavelike acceleration anymore. And there should not be any with the new exhaust manifold (the design of the wastegate rod flap was changed)
3. The engine runs well today. It has run well in the past too (except for the occasional powerloss). HOWEVER, and this brings me to the next point.
4. HOWEVER... Since day 1, a delay in acceleration response was there: going on a flat road, coarsing at around 1800 rpm and when pressing the accelerator (not WOT) it was a rubberband acceleration sensation... for a half of second the acceleration was weak and after you could feel the actual torque... And I was ok with that... I said that this is turbo lag.. BUT
5. BUT after first greasing (only the wastegate end, not the actuator) the throttle response was almost instant. This behavior was there for approx 1500 km... after it was lost.
6. This was the time when I changed the exhaust manifold... No more powerloss, but the throttle response was still the same.... laggy
7. After a while I have also greased the pressure actuator (druckdose) end of the axle and moved the rod. Just as described on the link I've posted.
8. Now the throttle response is quite fast. No more "turbo lag"

What I have used for greasing.
1. Wastegate end - sonax ceramic and liqui moly cupferpaste (tried with both just to see which one is better) - they both do the job
2. Actuator end - universal silicone oil (lidl W5) and then on top of it sonal ceramic.

If you don't want to change the exhaust manifold, you can successfuly improvise, as this guy did:
http://www.drive2.ru/l/4684552/
http://www.drive2.ru/l/4626387/

Hi, thanks

i will answer between the lines in red:

Zitat von fixpixu

So...
1. The exhaust manifold from the repair kit is has a different design compared to the old one.
This gives a little hope that somebody has made some "brainstorming" about the problem with wave form acceleration.
2. I do not have any powerloss problems, or wavelike acceleration anymore. And there should not be any with the new exhaust manifold (the design of the wastegate rod flap was changed)
Hope the desgin would changed to positive way. Your answer encouraged me to install the repairkit.
But Typ1H9 said he had even with the repairkit some power dropouts ? But i think this will be another Problem what you have described later.
Because of no obligingness from VW i own the new parts and can keep the old ones. They don't have to be sent back to VW, so i can inspect them and tinker with them. But i think i wouldnt have the chance to get a look to the new because on that time i will be on work.
3. The engine runs well today. It has run well in the past too (except for the occasional powerloss). HOWEVER, and this brings me to the next point.
4. HOWEVER... Since day 1, a delay in acceleration response was there: going on a flat road, coarsing at around 1800 rpm and when pressing the accelerator (not WOT) it was a rubberband acceleration sensation... for a half of second the acceleration was weak and after you could feel the actual torque... And I was ok with that... I said that this is turbo lag.. BUT
That sounds like Typ1H9 is reporting but also with the repaikit... and thats the experience what i have made too with the original turbo. The worst case was in third gear, 3200 U/min throttle at maximum, nothing happens for about good 3 seconds... This similar phenomenon i have sometimes in 3rd or 4rth gear on 1800U/min, throttle down reluctant acceleration like a turbo lag.
5. BUT after first greasing (only the wastegate end, not the actuator) the throttle response was almost instant. This behavior was there for approx 1500 km... after it was lost.
That is that what you have described earlier in this thread i remind it. Youve greased it with the sonax ceramic paste ? I also done it but after a few kilometers the wastegateflap was getting so hot of course that the paste getting dry like dust. Some kilometers where everything fine until the paste is fully blown away... The engine ran fine in this time. Thats no permanent solution for the furtue.
6. This was the time when I changed the exhaust manifold... No more powerloss, but the throttle response was still the same.... laggy
That sounds like a weak/powerless Turbo pressure actuator. Especially when you read further down, point 7, you did greased/lubricated the pressure actuator and then the problem was not there any more.

7. After a while I have also greased the pressure actuator (druckdose) end of the axle and moved the rod. Just as described on the link I've posted. Do you have greased the actuator directly, where the arm enters the actuator through a rubber seal with Silicon Oil ?
8. Now the throttle response is quite fast. No more "turbo lag"

Alles anzeigen

Zitat von fixpixu

What I have used for greasing.
1. Wastegate end - sonax ceramic and liqui moly cupferpaste (tried with both just to see which one is better) - they both do the job
End, you mean the eye at the end of the rod, the arm on the wastegate with sonax, not the bearing of the wastegate again ? This point is getting very hot too. Also there on my wastegate the sonax paste ist getting very dry too.
oooh, i also tried copper paste (up to 800 degrees) on the wastegate arm but that's some kind of sticky, oh no makes it not better sorry.
2. Actuator end - universal silicone oil (lidl W5) and then on top of it sonal ceramic.
As i asked above, the greased the actuator directly, where the arm enters the actuator through a rubber seal

Zitat von fixpixu

If you don't want to change the exhaust manifold, you can successfuly improvise, as this guy did:
http://www.drive2.ru/l/4684552/
http://www.drive2.ru/l/4626387/

Hmmmm, crazy idea. When I think properly he limited the max open position of the rod with a metal bracket ? So the wastegate couldnt get into the position where it is hooking...

And against the lazy pressure actuator can if nothing else helps:

http://forgemotorsport.at/prod…1-4-TSI--Turbo-only-.html

On Ebay with shipping costs 170 Euro. This will be the next test !

Actually there is a TPI for the wastegate problem: 2020616/16 (VW) - this means that VW knows about the problem and has a solution for it. As a proof, the turbocharger in VW spare part program (e. t. k. a) has a new part number (for some while now) 03C 145 702 L.

I've first greased the rod in june-august 2014.
The exhaust manifold was changed in late september 2014 (100% kulanz for the part, 0% for labor - but this was only 120 euro - so I was ok with that)
I have regreased the rod in december 2014 (now on the actuator side as well)

Just to make things clear.
Wastegate end = the end of the rod that attaches to the wastegate of the exhaust manifold (hot side)
Actuator end = the end of the rod that enters to the actuator through the rubber hole (cold side)

The first time I've greased ONLY the wastegate end. And indeed, the paste (either ceramic or copper) has turned into dust... but I've noticed that still was some lubrication. And a side note... Liqui Moly Kupferpaste stands to temperatures up to 1100 degrees, which according to VW should be more than enough, as the max temperature that the turbocharger should have is around 900 degrees (according to SSP 405).
The performance improvement after the first greasing might have been a side effect of me manually moving the actuator/wastegate, and indirectly cleaning the actuator end rod.

When greasing the actuator I have sprayed the silicon oil with a thin straw (just like the one of the WD40) in the actuator hole. After that I've covered the area with sonax.

Zitat von fixpixu

Actually there is a TPI for the wastegate problem: 2020616/16 (VW) - this means that VW knows about the problem and has a solution for it. As a proof, the turbocharger in VW spare part program (e. t. k. a) has a new part number (for some while now) 03C 145 702 L.

In my 2012 Golf 6 Variant is exactly this Turbo installed, the latest available und the ECU has the latest Software on it... Its a MHI Turbo, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, made in the Netherlands. I think VW has pushed the prices down for the Turbo and Mitsubishi has saved the costs on this Point, the bearing of the wastegate ! Cheap is everything today !!! But the engine will be no more build and so we have no more Problems with it, that thinks VW. And if we have yet Problems we put a repairkit on the market, its cheaper...

Zitat von fixpixu

I've first greased the rod in june-august 2014.
The exhaust manifold was changed in late september 2014 (100% kulanz for the part, 0% for labor - but this was only 120 euro - so I was ok with that)
I have regreased the rod in december 2014 (now on the actuator side as well)

120 is ok. On dieselschrauber.de in August 2013 there was a golf 6 Plus with the problems. He got a new Turbo because the repairkit was not deliverable. From when on did that repair kit exists for this Turbo ?

Zitat von fixpixu

Just to make things clear.
Wastegate end = the end of the rod that attaches to the wastegate of the exhaust manifold (hot side)
Actuator end = the end of the rod that enters to the actuator through the rubber hole (cold side)

Ok, then i think so too.

Zitat von fixpixu

The first time I've greased ONLY the wastegate end. And indeed, the paste (either ceramic or copper) has turned into dust... but I've noticed that still was some lubrication. And a side note... Liqui Moly Kupferpaste stands to temperatures up to 1100 degrees, which according to VW should be more than enough, as the max temperature that the turbocharger should have is around 900 degrees (according to SSP 405).
The performance improvement after the first greasing might have been a side effect of me manually moving the actuator/wastegate, and indirectly cleaning the actuator end rod.

For me it is the same. There was white dust but this white dust seems to have a dry lubrication. And it keeps a long time there where it is.
Yes about 900-950 degrees. Difficult to say wich temperature will be on this Point on the wastegate where the actuator rod is mounted. dont think 900 but 600-700. its pure speculation but the heat is sufficient to dry the ceramic paste out.
100 % agree to the last Point. I think this too. On my Turbo cleaning has been a side effect to better performance.

Zitat von fixpixu

When greasing the actuator I have sprayed the silicon oil with a thin straw (just like the one of the WD40) in the actuator hole. After that I've covered the area with sonax.

That sounds good. Will hunt up a good quality silicon Spray. I do not even want to think about it too great how the actuator is build up where the rod is mounted on, silicon spray in and good is.

The repair set (03C198722) for the turbocharger is an individual part in e.t. k.a. since late 2013

So, bin seit einer Woche mit dem Reparaturset unterwegs und die Probleme sind noch immer da. Sogar auf der Heimfahrt am Tag wo ich ihn abgeholt hatte, gut 23 km, trat die Wellenartige Beschleunigung im 5ten Gang sehr deutlich auf !

In den letzten Tagen kam sogar wieder Leistungsaussetzer dazu. Einmal hat er im 5ten bei gut 2000 U/min gezogen und knapp bei 2600 hat die Beschleunigung aufgehört, in 4ten zurück und nix weiter tat sich die nächsten 2 Sekunden, dann gings auf einmal sanft weiter, ohne großen Ruck.

Morgen geht er wieder in die Werkstatt, jetzt fährt der Chef selbst ein paar Tage damit herum.

Erste Sichtung von mir selbst hat ergeben, das sich an der neuen Wastegateklappe, wo der Hebel der Druckdose aufgeschoben wird, schon Flugrost gebildet hat, selbst das Auge des Druckdosengestänges hat Rost angesetzt !

Er fährt sich sehr nervös im Bereich ab 1600 U/min, leicht zuckelig und zugeschnürt, wenn man sanft beschleunigen will, bei Vollgas ruckelt es halt etwas stärker. Wenn er mal gute Momente hat, ist man erstaunt wie gut es voran gehen kann. Selbst bei diesen Temparaturen um 0 Grad braucht man nicht lange zu fahren (10 Minuten) und die Probleme fangen an.

Habe zur Zeit nen 2.0 Liter Diesel als Leihwagen, auch Golf 6 Variant, mit 154000km auf der Uhr, selbst der zieht ab 1200 im 3ten oder 4ten Gang sauberer durch, ist das angenehm zu fahren ! Schön war das, wo der TSI auch so durchzog.

Hat noch jemand eine Idee ???